Chat Transcript 04/25/08 Part 3

[2008/04/25 11:59] IM: Alaya Kumaki: yes distance education is a very good things
[2008/04/25 11:59] IM: Perplexity Peccable: Thank you, Lyday
[2008/04/25 11:59] Larry Pixel: kudos to Metanomcs for all they do -- and to Clever Zebra!
[2008/04/25 11:59] IM: Venus Jervil: it is, as people begin to realise that SL is an alternate form of communication, not a gimmicky game
[2008/04/25 11:59] IM: Perplexity Peccable: I push that point hard in a lot of venues
[2008/04/25 11:59] IM: Tammy Nowotny: Thanks Beyers
[2008/04/25 11:59] IM: Olando7 Decosta: exactly
[2008/04/25 11:59] IM: Hydra Shaftoe: yeah I was just happy to see an article mentioning SL that was not *about* SL
[2008/04/25 11:59] IM: Fleep Tuque: I'd extend that to virtual worlds in general, not just SL
[2008/04/25 12:00] Hour Destiny: Hear hear!
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Perplexity Peccable: Not just mobility - cognitive also
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: JenzZa Misfit: *** WIZ **** are you here ? SPEAK TO US WIZ ! *****
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Timecat Hotaling: i tell people about it all the time people i know chat alot
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: JenzZa Misfit: lol
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Perplexity Peccable: and micromotor and social anxiety or skills or autism
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Lyday Latte: yes cognitive also!! :))
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Hydra Shaftoe: It means we've upgraded from freak show to actual circus :P
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Lyday Latte: yes
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Alaya Kumaki: i have a disabel child and its very usefull
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Wiz Nordberg: i'm here :)
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Lyday Latte: what she said hehe
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Fleep Tuque: I have hopes that OpenSim and Sun's Wonderland and other platforms will provide more possibilities as well
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Perplexity Peccable: ditto
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: JenzZa Misfit: ...Hydra ! * flippity flip flip flip*
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Perplexity Peccable: I want a virtual world where I can be with my child as he explores
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Perplexity Peccable: where we can have family activities
[2008/04/25 12:00] IM: Hydra Shaftoe: *slapsslapslapslap*
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: Lehnerd Euler: here here...
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: Valiant Westland: It means we've upgraded from freak show to actual circus ROFL!
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: JenzZa Misfit: ah .. that would be Wunderland I think
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: Chimera Cosmos: Larry is still here--can we ask him questions? :-)
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: Alanagh Recreant: Lyday... we have been speaking about that the other day, how awesome a project would be to use Sl for people with disabilities here in South Africa
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: Timecat Hotaling: my children watch me play so i explain things to them i make sure im in clean enviroment in game
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: Perplexity Peccable: Yep
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: Timecat Hotaling: they are sl futor
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: Hydra Shaftoe: We aint stopping ya
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: Chimera Cosmos: he has to say OK
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: JenzZa Misfit: ... the problem HERE is .... you could TP to a mall to look at shoes and right next to the shoe shop IS ___________
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: Lyday Latte: yes alanagh! Please join Virtual Ability INcorporated group here in SL
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: Timecat Hotaling: nods
[2008/04/25 12:01] IM: JenzZa Misfit: so you cant even know in advance often times .... what you will encounter
[2008/04/25 12:02] IM: Alanagh Recreant: :)) sure will...
[2008/04/25 12:02] IM: Lyday Latte: VAI, Heron Sanctuary, Educational Disabilities Advocacy Group (latter gropu is my new group)
[2008/04/25 12:02] IM: Timecat Hotaling: i hav eto be careful either way
[2008/04/25 12:02] IM: Alaya Kumaki: yes time here we can teach them the same time we assit at something and talk in the house , and it even dosnt interfere with the cours
[2008/04/25 12:02] IM: Wiz Nordberg: yes the PG/Mature thing never really solved the problems that i think they were aiming at
[2008/04/25 12:02] IM: Timecat Hotaling: but somes
[2008/04/25 12:02] IM: Alanagh Recreant: we work with a specific group of 34 people...
[2008/04/25 12:02] IM: LifeFactory Writer: @Valiant: I love this :D " It means we've upgraded from freak show to actual circus ROFL!" -- I am looking for my juggling animation....
[2008/04/25 12:02] IM: Alanagh Recreant: Heron ;) with Gillian!
[2008/04/25 12:02] IM: Hydra Shaftoe: heh
[2008/04/25 12:02] IM: Wiz Nordberg: yes i think hydra gets the "quote of the week" award :)
[2008/04/25 12:02] IM: JenzZa Misfit: ***WIZ .. could we replay todays Metanomics on Tuesday .. after Mondays Metanomics ... aka : Rewind *** <--- confused ? so are we !
[2008/04/25 12:03] IM: Timecat Hotaling: time it make a good lesson about why people do things
[2008/04/25 12:03] IM: Valiant Westland: I ride a unicycle and juggle in RW Writer!
[2008/04/25 12:03] Jenn Hienrichs shouts: Everyone please find a seat, we'll be starting our next session in a few moments
[2008/04/25 12:03] IM: Alaya Kumaki: lol
[2008/04/25 12:03] IM: JenzZa Misfit: VALIANT !?! and play the drums !?!
[2008/04/25 12:03] IM: Valiant Westland: But I also wear Hicke Freeman suits to business meetings!
[2008/04/25 12:03] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: popcorn...get your popcorn here!
[2008/04/25 12:03] IM: Wiz Nordberg: sure jenzz. remind me.
[2008/04/25 12:03] IM: JenzZa Misfit: ... OMG .. how fun
[2008/04/25 12:03] IM: JenzZa Misfit: ok Wiz .. you rock
[2008/04/25 12:03] Female ZHAO-II AO: Couldn't find animation sitting chair f05
[2008/04/25 12:03] IM: Alaya Kumaki: have very loud musics too
[2008/04/25 12:03] IM: Timecat Hotaling: the best part about sl to me is im a stay at home mom with medical issues sl is my link to the world and others
[2008/04/25 12:03] IM: Wiz Nordberg: maybe i can put another bugs bunny between them so people can get popcorn :)
[2008/04/25 12:04] IM: Alanagh Recreant looks at her sleeping meerkat...
[2008/04/25 12:04] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Clever%20Zebra%204/14/256/49
[2008/04/25 12:04] The region you have entered is running a different simulator version. Click this message for details.
[2008/04/25 12:04] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2008/04/25 12:04] Connected
[2008/04/25 12:04] IM: Alanagh Recreant sighs, I love SL
[2008/04/25 12:04] IM: Nany Kayo: the best part about SL for me is hanging out with bright creative people.
[2008/04/25 12:04] IM: Julynn Lilliehook weeps quietly while reinstalling Vista
[2008/04/25 12:04] IM: Dirk Talamasca: Turning over governance to region owners is a step in that direction, Perp and Time. There is no reason such an environment could not exist. It requires extra attention to detail which the region owner could promise and be obligated to provide.
[2008/04/25 12:04] IM: Nany Kayo: lol
[2008/04/25 12:05] IM: JenzZa Misfit: **** REPLAY of todays show *** will be on TUESDAY AT MUSE ISLE --- 3 PM .. double feature ! 2 Metanomics Rewinds for the price of 1 ! *** FREE !! ***** what a DEAL ! **** we will post this on the website too ** www.metanomics.net ***your source for all things Metanomics ! ****
[2008/04/25 12:05] IM: LifeFactory Writer: gives Wiz popcorn.
[2008/04/25 12:05] IM: Salem Sella: Woo Hoo
[2008/04/25 12:06] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: Peanuts! Peanuts! Get yer p-nutzzzzzz!
[2008/04/25 12:06] IM: JenzZa Misfit: lol .. yes Julynn .. bring peanuts ! then we will have mixed nuts ! *groan*
[2008/04/25 12:06] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: hahaha
[2008/04/25 12:07] IM: Julynn Lilliehook is a huge fan of nuts!
[2008/04/25 12:07] IM: Salem Sella: peanuts? Are we expecting Republicans?
[2008/04/25 12:07] IM: Hydra Shaftoe: Yall can add me on twitter if you want. I post the occassional tidbit since I read the news about virtual worlds a lot - hydravelsen
[2008/04/25 12:07] IM: Veeyawn Spoonhammer: zing!
[2008/04/25 12:07] IM: Alaya Kumaki: no salt for me
[2008/04/25 12:07] IM: JenzZa Misfit: oh thats right ::: those of you still here at Clever Zebra ( however you pronouce it ) NEXT UP ::: legal issues I think and taxation ?
[2008/04/25 12:07] IM: Fleep Tuque: Virtual Worlds and the Law
[2008/04/25 12:07] IM: Fleep Tuque: sez the program
[2008/04/25 12:07] IM: JenzZa Misfit: ty Fleep ! ** FLEEP FOR PREZ ! ***
[2008/04/25 12:07] IM: Fleep Tuque: :)
[2008/04/25 12:07] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: NO NEW TAXES!
[2008/04/25 12:07] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: READ MY LIPS
[2008/04/25 12:08] IM: Fleep Tuque: laugh
[2008/04/25 12:08] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: no the other ones!
[2008/04/25 12:08] IM: Fizz Okame: Obama for Prez!
[2008/04/25 12:08] IM: Salem Sella: do you noe mean"Read my back chat!"
[2008/04/25 12:08] IM: Sered Woollahra: stream is not on yet, is it?
[2008/04/25 12:08] IM: JenzZa Misfit: i have zero audio
[2008/04/25 12:08] IM: Fleep Tuque: no stream yet at CZ
[2008/04/25 12:08] IM: Sered Woollahra: ok tnx
[2008/04/25 12:08] IM: Chimera Cosmos: Replay/Rewind/Recap--comes to the same thing...hahaha
[2008/04/25 12:08] IM: Salem Sella: I have gone home
[2008/04/25 12:09] IM: Fleep Tuque: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Clever%20Zebra%203/6/16/49 for those who want to attend the next vBusiness Expo panel
[2008/04/25 12:09] IM: Salem Sella: So much to wirk on and RL errands to run after wards
[2008/04/25 12:09] IM: JenzZa Misfit: well we went with Rewind, Chimera .. because Beyers says that word funny !
[2008/04/25 12:09] IM: Chimera Cosmos: it's all good :-))
[2008/04/25 12:09] IM: Sered Woollahra: stream is on!
[2008/04/25 12:09] IM: JenzZa Misfit: yay ! now make us cry about taxes ! HOORAH !
[2008/04/25 12:10] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: woot...hmmm...can't hear anything
[2008/04/25 12:10] IM: Chimera Cosmos: Zehhhbra!
[2008/04/25 12:10] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: stop wiht the taxes already
[2008/04/25 12:10] IM: Kwil Lowey: Stop and restart it.
[2008/04/25 12:10] IM: Beyers Sellers: I am listening,JenzZa
[2008/04/25 12:10] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: there is more to law than taxes
[2008/04/25 12:10] IM: Beyers Sellers: what do I say funny about rewind?
[2008/04/25 12:10] IM: JenzZa Misfit: ... ZayBruh <-- would be in australia .. see ? *whoa .. hi Beyers ! *
[2008/04/25 12:18] IM: Valiant Westland: Don't litigate against thieves... shoot them!
[2008/04/25 12:20] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: herman who?
[2008/04/25 12:20] IM: Media Hax: wow... great idea by furniture maker
[2008/04/25 12:20] IM: Valiant Westland: Herman Miller... makers of the Eron chair
[2008/04/25 12:20] IM: Valiant Westland: Based in Holland Michigan
[2008/04/25 12:20] IM: Valiant Westland: Disclaimer... RW client of mine.
[2008/04/25 12:21] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: oh....i can't afford fancy stuff in RL
[2008/04/25 12:22] IM: Nany Kayo: cant fly in RL either
[2008/04/25 12:22] IM: Julynn Lilliehook starts flying every night at 5pm in RL
[2008/04/25 12:23] IM: Bjorlyn Loon: hi ALmo
[2008/04/25 12:24] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Do people actually work for $.37 an hour here?
[2008/04/25 12:24] IM: Beyers Sellers: yes!
[2008/04/25 12:24] IM: Valiant Westland: Good contracts are going to require RW legal protections!
[2008/04/25 12:24] IM: LifeFactory Writer: 100 L = 37 cents, right????
[2008/04/25 12:25] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Why do they do that, Beyers?
[2008/04/25 12:25] IM: Valiant Westland: And Non-disclosure agreements and...
[2008/04/25 12:25] IM: LifeFactory Writer: I suppose I should ask them.
[2008/04/25 12:25] IM: Ellie Brewster: Define work.
[2008/04/25 12:25] IM: Valiant Westland: These are the "Best Practices" mentioned earlier...
[2008/04/25 12:25] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Bulding and scripting as skills are surely worth more than 37 cents, don't you think?
[2008/04/25 12:26] IM: Media Hax: I run a small sweetshop in SL...
[2008/04/25 12:26] IM: LifeFactory Writer: :) HI Media.
[2008/04/25 12:26] IM: Media Hax: *sweat
[2008/04/25 12:26] IM: Kwil Lowey: If you can organize the builders to agree with that, then yes... otherwise, it's worth what people charge.
[2008/04/25 12:26] IM: Hydra Shaftoe: if you had said Sweatshop I'd be more impressed
[2008/04/25 12:26] IM: LifeFactory Writer: I prefered "sweet"shop :D
[2008/04/25 12:26] IM: Julynn Lilliehook agrees with VAliant
[2008/04/25 12:26] IM: Media Hax: ;-)
[2008/04/25 12:26] IM: LifeFactory Writer: I thought people were charging $20.00-$50.00 an hour, which seems reasonable.
[2008/04/25 12:26] IM: Julynn Lilliehook has made those in SL non-disclosure agreements
[2008/04/25 12:27] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: but I don't think AMerican min wage laws apply
[2008/04/25 12:27] IM: LifeFactory Writer: I think this is what graphic designers and scripters in the first world charge, basically.
[2008/04/25 12:28] IM: Valiant Westland: So... create the RW base of operations for your virtual business in the Caman Islands, etc!
[2008/04/25 12:28] IM: Nany Kayo: I pay more than $50 for lots of stuff in SL
[2008/04/25 12:28] IM: LifeFactory Writer: If the skills are up to par, that seems completely reasonable to me.
[2008/04/25 12:28] IM: Valiant Westland: Or in the case of the US... in Nevada, which is a tax-free, business-friendly state!
[2008/04/25 12:29] IM: Hydra Shaftoe: One factor I've seen that has made the economy in project entropia more viable than SL's, is that the PED (project entropia dollar) is pinned against the US dollar at a rate of 5 PED per US dollar. The value of the linden is so low that it makes BIG numbers with small values. $50,000L looks like a lot of money to anyone who has to pay a bill but $PED250 is a much easier number to swallow. I've actually seen people be driven off by prices of the SAME THING in Second Life that they wanted in entropia, and felt better about paying for it in entropia because the price quoted "felt" smaller.
[2008/04/25 12:29] IM: Venus Jervil: Are there countries in the world where they have enough relative wealth to afford a computer and power to run it, yet their different economic situation means that the exchange rate makes Lindens viable to be paid in at these sorts of minimum wage rates?
[2008/04/25 12:29] IM: Kwil Lowey: Valiant: Head office doesn't matter as much as location of employee. Are you going to require all employees to be in Nevada/Cayman islands?
[2008/04/25 12:30] IM: LifeFactory Writer: @Hydra-- I paid for one small thing in SL; I offered the price in US to avoid any confusion or manipulation.
[2008/04/25 12:30] IM: Valiant Westland: Good point Kwil... although there is precedent for minimizing liabillities via virtual workforces tied to a favorable HQ hub
[2008/04/25 12:31] IM: Tex Rhode: What if the work is done in the Nevada sim, or the Cayman Island sim ?
[2008/04/25 12:31] IM: Tex Rhode: (sorry, I just couldn't resist)
[2008/04/25 12:31] IM: LifeFactory Writer: has little taste for exploitation.
[2008/04/25 12:32] IM: Nicole Tarber would love an office in the Caymans!
[2008/04/25 12:32] IM: Sered Woollahra: tex, this issue seems even more pressing in opensim environments I think
[2008/04/25 12:32] IM: Media Hax: What if the sim were to reside in one of those countries.. another good arguement for opening the grid
[2008/04/25 12:32] IM: Sered Woollahra: opemsims can be anywhere..
[2008/04/25 12:33] IM: Darleen Nikolaidis: sorry for joining so late the conversation. How do you define "open" sim?
[2008/04/25 12:33] IM: Sered Woollahra: i've written once on distributed grids, think thatś's even more difficyult legally.
[2008/04/25 12:33] IM: Tex Rhode: (--hmmm, just to be clear, I ws making a joke, the joke being "confusion" between the real world and the virtual worlds.
[2008/04/25 12:33] IM: Sered Woollahra: opensim is open source SL simulator. You can host your own.
[2008/04/25 12:33] IM: Buffy Beale: Charge a global tax, put it in a fund to do a global good such as ending world hunger
[2008/04/25 12:33] IM: Media Hax: Darleen, "Opensim" is the open source project for Virtual worlds
[2008/04/25 12:33] IM: Sered Woollahra: Lol buffy
[2008/04/25 12:33] IM: Darleen Nikolaidis: ty
[2008/04/25 12:34] IM: LifeFactory Writer: Which back chat is he responding to, please?
[2008/04/25 12:35] IM: Valiant Westland: Cayman Islands!
[2008/04/25 12:35] IM: LifeFactory Writer: ah,...nevermind....this one, it seems.
[2008/04/25 12:35] IM: Valiant Westland: Hmmm
[2008/04/25 12:35] IM: Fleep Tuque: might be IMs to him directly
[2008/04/25 12:35] IM: LifeFactory Writer: ok, Fleep. thanks.
[2008/04/25 12:35] IM: Darleen Nikolaidis: regarding the legal part, at least countries charge any affiliate of multinationals. Typically those deduct tax paid elsewhere from the tax paid at their home location. So if you have a distributed workforce, HQ in the Caymans wouldn't guarantee you anything
[2008/04/25 12:36] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: anyone interested in joining SL LAw School...IM me
[2008/04/25 12:37] IM: Darleen Nikolaidis: I would... smiles
[2008/04/25 12:37] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: This is some of the stuff we will talk about
[2008/04/25 12:37] IM: Valiant Westland: Using "Independent Contractors" and having all revenue inbound at the HQ level is the key
[2008/04/25 12:38] IM: Darleen Nikolaidis: hmmm, In Europe they would tell you that there is a labour relationship and they would consider them to all effects as your employees. There's legislation in some countries around that already
[2008/04/25 12:39] IM: Valiant Westland: In the US labor laws are much less government intrusive...
[2008/04/25 12:39] IM: Darleen Nikolaidis: I know
[2008/04/25 12:39] IM: Media Hax: Can't want for a nationless world
[2008/04/25 12:40] IM: Julynn Lilliehook: oh?
[2008/04/25 12:40] IM: Valiant Westland: I think the Metaverse is a great catalyst for a "Right to Work" culture.
[2008/04/25 12:40] IM: Darleen Nikolaidis: I have been eight years in Europe and can attest that it's a big change
[2008/04/25 12:40] IM: LifeFactory Writer: So, if you assemble a multi-national team in VR, are you going to pay the participant in China $.37 cents and the US or Euro employee a more reasonable rate? Sounds to me that VRs are only going to facilitate "outsourcing" :D
[2008/04/25 12:41] IM: Valiant Westland: Not "Outsourcing" "Right